[Fight Thread] DBZ Goku vs. JLU Amazo

[S.t.A.n.L.e.E]

Ah, the days when fight threads were supposed to go to raaf.

So, in light of 9/18 Sat's Goku and Amazo characters,
it's time for a good old fashioned slugfest. ^_^

DBZ Goku (not manga, not DBGT) vs. JLU Amazo (not comics)
Fightooooooooo!!!

(To those who missed the 9/18 JL Unlimited "The Return" ep,
I'm sure someone here would give the complete lowdown on
Amazo's new abilities, including going to subatomic size
and controlling dimensions, though I'm not sure what
I'm wondering was delved upon - that is, how does Amazo
fare against non-science/physics-based... like magic....)

Anyways, didn't Goku get sick from a virus?
Maybe Amazo could shrink himself to virus size to sicken Goku
or even to subatomic size and manipulate his molecules?

Laters. =)

STan
--
_______ ________ _______ ____ ___ ___ ______ ______
| __|__ __| _ | \ | | | | _____| _____|
|__ | | | | _ | |\ | |___| ____|| ____|
|_______| |__| |__| |__|___| \ ___|_______|______|______|
__| | ( )
/ _ | |/ LostRune+sig [at] UofR [dot] net
| ( _| | http://www.uofr.net/~lostrune/
\ ______| _______ ____ ___
/ \ / \ | _ | \ | |
/ \/ \| _ | |\ |
/___/\/\___|__| |__|___| \ ___|

[Ethan Hammond]

"S.t.A.n.L.e.E" <LostRune+NGs@UofR.SlamSpam.net> wrote in message
>
> Anyways, didn't Goku get sick from a virus?

Yeah and it killed him in the alternate timeline, it was
a heart virus I think. Also Goku got sick in the normal
timeline because he was a dumbass and didn't take the
cure for the disease right when Trunks gave it to him
and instead waited to get sick.

--
All Purpose Cultural Randomness
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/apcr/index.html

[Ethan Hammond]

"S.t.A.n.L.e.E" <LostRune+NGs@UofR.SlamSpam.net> wrote in message
>
> Anyways, didn't Goku get sick from a virus?

Yeah and it killed him in the alternate timeline, it was
a heart virus I think. Also Goku got sick in the normal
timeline because he was a dumbass and didn't take the
cure for the disease right when Trunks gave it to him
and instead waited to get sick.

--
All Purpose Cultural Randomness
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/apcr/index.html

[Disruptor]

"S.t.A.n.L.e.E" wrote:

> Ah, the days when fight threads were supposed to go to raaf.
>
> So, in light of 9/18 Sat's Goku and Amazo characters,
> it's time for a good old fashioned slugfest. ^_^
>
> DBZ Goku (not manga, not DBGT) vs. JLU Amazo (not comics)
> Fightooooooooo!!!
>
> (To those who missed the 9/18 JL Unlimited "The Return" ep,
> I'm sure someone here would give the complete lowdown on
> Amazo's new abilities, including going to subatomic size
> and controlling dimensions, though I'm not sure what
> I'm wondering was delved upon - that is, how does Amazo
> fare against non-science/physics-based... like magic....)

Really depends on the Amazo. A recent one in the comics had all the
abilites of the current JLA. The more members the JLA had, the more
powerful Amazo got. Superman on Atom's advice told Amazo that as the
chiarman, he was officially disbanding the league. Amazo collapsed with
no powers and unconcious. Amazo is not to bright.

If another Amazo is built while Zatana is part of the JLA, he would
have Zatana's powers.

>
> Anyways, didn't Goku get sick from a virus?
> Maybe Amazo could shrink himself to virus size to sicken Goku
> or even to subatomic size and manipulate his molecules?

Well, he does have another option. I'm not to sure if Goku has a
defense against having his mind wiped. Both Green Lantern and Zatana
have that ability

[Disruptor]

"S.t.A.n.L.e.E" wrote:

> Ah, the days when fight threads were supposed to go to raaf.
>
> So, in light of 9/18 Sat's Goku and Amazo characters,
> it's time for a good old fashioned slugfest. ^_^
>
> DBZ Goku (not manga, not DBGT) vs. JLU Amazo (not comics)
> Fightooooooooo!!!
>
> (To those who missed the 9/18 JL Unlimited "The Return" ep,
> I'm sure someone here would give the complete lowdown on
> Amazo's new abilities, including going to subatomic size
> and controlling dimensions, though I'm not sure what
> I'm wondering was delved upon - that is, how does Amazo
> fare against non-science/physics-based... like magic....)

Really depends on the Amazo. A recent one in the comics had all the
abilites of the current JLA. The more members the JLA had, the more
powerful Amazo got. Superman on Atom's advice told Amazo that as the
chiarman, he was officially disbanding the league. Amazo collapsed with
no powers and unconcious. Amazo is not to bright.

If another Amazo is built while Zatana is part of the JLA, he would
have Zatana's powers.

>
> Anyways, didn't Goku get sick from a virus?
> Maybe Amazo could shrink himself to virus size to sicken Goku
> or even to subatomic size and manipulate his molecules?

Well, he does have another option. I'm not to sure if Goku has a
defense against having his mind wiped. Both Green Lantern and Zatana
have that ability

[Freezer]

If I don't respond to this S.t.A.n.L.e.E post, the terrorists win.

>
> Ah, the days when fight threads were supposed to go to raaf.
>
> So, in light of 9/18 Sat's Goku and Amazo characters,
> it's time for a good old fashioned slugfest. ^_^
>
> DBZ Goku (not manga, not DBGT) vs. JLU Amazo (not comics)
> Fightooooooooo!!!
>
> (To those who missed the 9/18 JL Unlimited "The Return" ep,
> I'm sure someone here would give the complete lowdown on
> Amazo's new abilities, including going to subatomic size
> and controlling dimensions, though I'm not sure what
> I'm wondering was delved upon - that is, how does Amazo
> fare against non-science/physics-based... like magic....)
>
> Anyways, didn't Goku get sick from a virus?
> Maybe Amazo could shrink himself to virus size to sicken Goku
> or even to subatomic size and manipulate his molecules?


Heh... And here I was thinking, "So _this_ is what would happen if the
Justice League fought a Z-Senshi!"

I'd say, that Goku poured it on and took out Amazo as fast as
possible, he'd lose and lose badly.

Why? Because (presumably) Amazo can still think with computer-like
speed. And as soon as he realized that Goku was physically stronger
than him and could withstand any physical or energy attacks he threw
at him, he'd start to get... Creative. Zap into some random
dimension, shrink him to the size of a mosquito and swat him, zap
_half_ of him into another dimension, fly them both into deep space
and leave him there....

Yeah, I'd say Goku in a swift knockout or Amazo in a longer fight.


--
My name is:
____ _
/ ___| | |
| |__ _ __ ___ ___ ____ ___ _ __ | |
| __|| '__/ _ \/ _ \/_ // _ \| '__|| |
| | | | __/ __/ / /| __/| | |_|
|_| |_| \___|\___||___|\___||_| (_)
And my anti-drug is porn.

http://www.geocities.com/mysterysciencefreezer
(MSTings and other assorted brain droppings)

[Freezer]

If I don't respond to this S.t.A.n.L.e.E post, the terrorists win.

>
> Ah, the days when fight threads were supposed to go to raaf.
>
> So, in light of 9/18 Sat's Goku and Amazo characters,
> it's time for a good old fashioned slugfest. ^_^
>
> DBZ Goku (not manga, not DBGT) vs. JLU Amazo (not comics)
> Fightooooooooo!!!
>
> (To those who missed the 9/18 JL Unlimited "The Return" ep,
> I'm sure someone here would give the complete lowdown on
> Amazo's new abilities, including going to subatomic size
> and controlling dimensions, though I'm not sure what
> I'm wondering was delved upon - that is, how does Amazo
> fare against non-science/physics-based... like magic....)
>
> Anyways, didn't Goku get sick from a virus?
> Maybe Amazo could shrink himself to virus size to sicken Goku
> or even to subatomic size and manipulate his molecules?


Heh... And here I was thinking, "So _this_ is what would happen if the
Justice League fought a Z-Senshi!"

I'd say, that Goku poured it on and took out Amazo as fast as
possible, he'd lose and lose badly.

Why? Because (presumably) Amazo can still think with computer-like
speed. And as soon as he realized that Goku was physically stronger
than him and could withstand any physical or energy attacks he threw
at him, he'd start to get... Creative. Zap into some random
dimension, shrink him to the size of a mosquito and swat him, zap
_half_ of him into another dimension, fly them both into deep space
and leave him there....

Yeah, I'd say Goku in a swift knockout or Amazo in a longer fight.


--
My name is:
____ _
/ ___| | |
| |__ _ __ ___ ___ ____ ___ _ __ | |
| __|| '__/ _ \/ _ \/_ // _ \| '__|| |
| | | | __/ __/ / /| __/| | |_|
|_| |_| \___|\___||___|\___||_| (_)
And my anti-drug is porn.

http://www.geocities.com/mysterysciencefreezer
(MSTings and other assorted brain droppings)

[Sea Wasp]

Disruptor wrote:

> Well, he does have another option. I'm not to sure if Goku has a
> defense against having his mind wiped. Both Green Lantern and Zatana
> have that ability
>

Some would say that this requires that Goku have a mind to wipe. ;)



I have no idea who Amazo is, but if he didn't use the RIGHT power
against Goku first, it is possible that what would happen is that Goku
would learn to imitate whatever power it is that allows Amazo to GET
all these other people's abilities. At which point the universe is
screwed.


--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/seawasp/

[Sea Wasp]

Disruptor wrote:

> Well, he does have another option. I'm not to sure if Goku has a
> defense against having his mind wiped. Both Green Lantern and Zatana
> have that ability
>

Some would say that this requires that Goku have a mind to wipe. ;)



I have no idea who Amazo is, but if he didn't use the RIGHT power
against Goku first, it is possible that what would happen is that Goku
would learn to imitate whatever power it is that allows Amazo to GET
all these other people's abilities. At which point the universe is
screwed.


--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/seawasp/

[Bill Blackthorn]

Sea Wasp wrote in news:414D9A08.10903@sgeobviousinc.com:

> Disruptor wrote:
>
>> Well, he does have another option. I'm not to sure if Goku has a
>> defense against having his mind wiped. Both Green Lantern and Zatana
>> have that ability
>>
>
> Some would say that this requires that Goku have a mind to wipe. ;)
>
>
>
> I have no idea who Amazo is, but if he didn't use the RIGHT power
> against Goku first, it is possible that what would happen is that Goku
> would learn to imitate whatever power it is that allows Amazo to GET
> all these other people's abilities. At which point the universe is
> screwed.

I don't think this argument has a solid basis in Dragonball
canon. The only techniques Goku picked up that way were
comparitively elementary martial arts/ki techniques and these
feats have been duplicated by Tenshinhan and Kurilin. He didn't
even learn flight until several years after he had first seen
it (even though he could have made very good use of it) and
according to Gohan thats a really simple, abit somewhat
counterintuitive trick. Goku's more advanced techinques (Kaioken,
Genki Dama and Shunkan Idou) were learned from proper instutors
during long offstage training phases. He *never* learned things
like Ginyu's body exchange or Boo's tranformation ray. Or do you
think he deliberately stayed in Ginyu's body?
Actually Boo has a far better track record than Goku as far as
copying techniques is concerned :D
--
Email rot13 qnex-naq-cevpxyl ng fbsgubzr qbg arg

[Bill Blackthorn]

Sea Wasp wrote in news:414D9A08.10903@sgeobviousinc.com:

> Disruptor wrote:
>
>> Well, he does have another option. I'm not to sure if Goku has a
>> defense against having his mind wiped. Both Green Lantern and Zatana
>> have that ability
>>
>
> Some would say that this requires that Goku have a mind to wipe. ;)
>
>
>
> I have no idea who Amazo is, but if he didn't use the RIGHT power
> against Goku first, it is possible that what would happen is that Goku
> would learn to imitate whatever power it is that allows Amazo to GET
> all these other people's abilities. At which point the universe is
> screwed.

I don't think this argument has a solid basis in Dragonball
canon. The only techniques Goku picked up that way were
comparitively elementary martial arts/ki techniques and these
feats have been duplicated by Tenshinhan and Kurilin. He didn't
even learn flight until several years after he had first seen
it (even though he could have made very good use of it) and
according to Gohan thats a really simple, abit somewhat
counterintuitive trick. Goku's more advanced techinques (Kaioken,
Genki Dama and Shunkan Idou) were learned from proper instutors
during long offstage training phases. He *never* learned things
like Ginyu's body exchange or Boo's tranformation ray. Or do you
think he deliberately stayed in Ginyu's body?
Actually Boo has a far better track record than Goku as far as
copying techniques is concerned :D
--
Email rot13 qnex-naq-cevpxyl ng fbsgubzr qbg arg

[S.t.A.n.L.e.E]

On Sun, 19 Sep 2004, Disruptor wrote:

>
>
> "S.t.A.n.L.e.E" wrote:
>
> > Ah, the days when fight threads were supposed to go to raaf.
> >
> > So, in light of 9/18 Sat's Goku and Amazo characters,
> > it's time for a good old fashioned slugfest. ^_^
> >
> > DBZ Goku (not manga, not DBGT) vs. JLU Amazo (not comics)
> > Fightooooooooo!!!
> >
> > (To those who missed the 9/18 JL Unlimited "The Return" ep,
> > I'm sure someone here would give the complete lowdown on
> > Amazo's new abilities, including going to subatomic size
> > and controlling dimensions, though I'm not sure what
> > I'm wondering was delved upon - that is, how does Amazo
> > fare against non-science/physics-based... like magic....)
>
> Really depends on the Amazo. A recent one in the comics had all the
>

I thought I was already quite specific? ^_^
"JLU Amazo (not comics)"

>
> If another Amazo is built while Zatana is part of the JLA, he would
> have Zatana's powers.
>

Well, I dunno. Amazo was made based on science,
so any science-based stuff, it's plausible he can do.
But magic is a whole different matter
- it's not based on physical laws or equations, but faith.

So, I also wondered how he'd stack up against Morganna, Mordu,
Ares and the gods, etc, even though the JL defeated them all.
They've been in a lot of eps lately,
except this one when they're needed the most. ^_^

> >
> > Anyways, didn't Goku get sick from a virus?
> > Maybe Amazo could shrink himself to virus size to sicken Goku
> > or even to subatomic size and manipulate his molecules?
>
> Well, he does have another option. I'm not to sure if Goku has a
> defense against having his mind wiped. Both Green Lantern and Zatana
> have that ability
>

Green Lantern? I thought that was J'onn's specialty?

Laters. =)

STan
--
_______ ________ _______ ____ ___ ___ ______ ______
| __|__ __| _ | \ | | | | _____| _____|
|__ | | | | _ | |\ | |___| ____|| ____|
|_______| |__| |__| |__|___| \ ___|_______|______|______|
__| | ( )
/ _ | |/ LostRune+sig [at] UofR [dot] net
| ( _| | http://www.uofr.net/~lostrune/
\ ______| _______ ____ ___
/ \ / \ | _ | \ | |
/ \/ \| _ | |\ |
/___/\/\___|__| |__|___| \ ___|

[S.t.A.n.L.e.E]

On Sun, 19 Sep 2004, Disruptor wrote:

>
>
> "S.t.A.n.L.e.E" wrote:
>
> > Ah, the days when fight threads were supposed to go to raaf.
> >
> > So, in light of 9/18 Sat's Goku and Amazo characters,
> > it's time for a good old fashioned slugfest. ^_^
> >
> > DBZ Goku (not manga, not DBGT) vs. JLU Amazo (not comics)
> > Fightooooooooo!!!
> >
> > (To those who missed the 9/18 JL Unlimited "The Return" ep,
> > I'm sure someone here would give the complete lowdown on
> > Amazo's new abilities, including going to subatomic size
> > and controlling dimensions, though I'm not sure what
> > I'm wondering was delved upon - that is, how does Amazo
> > fare against non-science/physics-based... like magic....)
>
> Really depends on the Amazo. A recent one in the comics had all the
>

I thought I was already quite specific? ^_^
"JLU Amazo (not comics)"

>
> If another Amazo is built while Zatana is part of the JLA, he would
> have Zatana's powers.
>

Well, I dunno. Amazo was made based on science,
so any science-based stuff, it's plausible he can do.
But magic is a whole different matter
- it's not based on physical laws or equations, but faith.

So, I also wondered how he'd stack up against Morganna, Mordu,
Ares and the gods, etc, even though the JL defeated them all.
They've been in a lot of eps lately,
except this one when they're needed the most. ^_^

> >
> > Anyways, didn't Goku get sick from a virus?
> > Maybe Amazo could shrink himself to virus size to sicken Goku
> > or even to subatomic size and manipulate his molecules?
>
> Well, he does have another option. I'm not to sure if Goku has a
> defense against having his mind wiped. Both Green Lantern and Zatana
> have that ability
>

Green Lantern? I thought that was J'onn's specialty?

Laters. =)

STan
--
_______ ________ _______ ____ ___ ___ ______ ______
| __|__ __| _ | \ | | | | _____| _____|
|__ | | | | _ | |\ | |___| ____|| ____|
|_______| |__| |__| |__|___| \ ___|_______|______|______|
__| | ( )
/ _ | |/ LostRune+sig [at] UofR [dot] net
| ( _| | http://www.uofr.net/~lostrune/
\ ______| _______ ____ ___
/ \ / \ | _ | \ | |
/ \/ \| _ | |\ |
/___/\/\___|__| |__|___| \ ___|

[S.t.A.n.L.e.E]

On Sun, 19 Sep 2004, Sea Wasp wrote:

> Disruptor wrote:
>
> > Well, he does have another option. I'm not to sure if Goku has a
> > defense against having his mind wiped. Both Green Lantern and Zatana
> > have that ability
> >
>
> Some would say that this requires that Goku have a mind to wipe. ;)
>

Heheh. Actually, in a way, you could say JLU Amazo
is even more naive than Goku, if even possible. ^_^
He's like a newborn still learning the ways of the universe.

>
> I have no idea who Amazo is, but if he didn't use the RIGHT power
> against Goku first, it is possible that what would happen is that Goku
> would learn to imitate whatever power it is that allows Amazo to GET
> all these other people's abilities. At which point the universe is
> screwed.
>

Actually, _instant_ power-copy is one of Amazo's abilities,
and then he improves on them, all without need for training.
That's how he was able to best the Justice League
- the more powerful his enemy, the even more powerful he becomes.
He could now even "move" the Green Lantern Corp's home planet
into another dimension and back, all in an instant.
He said no place, dimensional or subatomic, is out of his reach.
And he doesn't ever run out of energy, lives forever, immortal.

Though as I mentioned before, I'm not sure about magic stuff
since that's not science-based, as Amazo was built a nano-robot.
At the ep's end, Dr. Fate used magic to transport them both,
If Amazo could, that would be a chance for him to copy that magic,
but he didn't at all react about it (then again, it ended there).
But who knows what he learned travelling all over the universe,
so I dunno.... ^_^;;

Laters. =)

Stan
--
_______ ________ _______ ____ ___ ___ ______ ______
| __|__ __| _ | \ | | | | _____| _____|
|__ | | | | _ | |\ | |___| ____|| ____|
|_______| |__| |__| |__|___| \ ___|_______|______|______|
__| | ( )
/ _ | |/ LostRune+sig [at] UofR [dot] net
| ( _| | http://www.uofr.net/~lostrune/
\ ______| _______ ____ ___
/ \ / \ | _ | \ | |
/ \/ \| _ | |\ |
/___/\/\___|__| |__|___| \ ___|

[S.t.A.n.L.e.E]

On Sun, 19 Sep 2004, Sea Wasp wrote:

> Disruptor wrote:
>
> > Well, he does have another option. I'm not to sure if Goku has a
> > defense against having his mind wiped. Both Green Lantern and Zatana
> > have that ability
> >
>
> Some would say that this requires that Goku have a mind to wipe. ;)
>

Heheh. Actually, in a way, you could say JLU Amazo
is even more naive than Goku, if even possible. ^_^
He's like a newborn still learning the ways of the universe.

>
> I have no idea who Amazo is, but if he didn't use the RIGHT power
> against Goku first, it is possible that what would happen is that Goku
> would learn to imitate whatever power it is that allows Amazo to GET
> all these other people's abilities. At which point the universe is
> screwed.
>

Actually, _instant_ power-copy is one of Amazo's abilities,
and then he improves on them, all without need for training.
That's how he was able to best the Justice League
- the more powerful his enemy, the even more powerful he becomes.
He could now even "move" the Green Lantern Corp's home planet
into another dimension and back, all in an instant.
He said no place, dimensional or subatomic, is out of his reach.
And he doesn't ever run out of energy, lives forever, immortal.

Though as I mentioned before, I'm not sure about magic stuff
since that's not science-based, as Amazo was built a nano-robot.
At the ep's end, Dr. Fate used magic to transport them both,
If Amazo could, that would be a chance for him to copy that magic,
but he didn't at all react about it (then again, it ended there).
But who knows what he learned travelling all over the universe,
so I dunno.... ^_^;;

Laters. =)

Stan
--
_______ ________ _______ ____ ___ ___ ______ ______
| __|__ __| _ | \ | | | | _____| _____|
|__ | | | | _ | |\ | |___| ____|| ____|
|_______| |__| |__| |__|___| \ ___|_______|______|______|
__| | ( )
/ _ | |/ LostRune+sig [at] UofR [dot] net
| ( _| | http://www.uofr.net/~lostrune/
\ ______| _______ ____ ___
/ \ / \ | _ | \ | |
/ \/ \| _ | |\ |
/___/\/\___|__| |__|___| \ ___|

[Dot Warner]

> Why? Because (presumably) Amazo can still think with computer-like
> speed. And as soon as he realized that Goku was physically stronger
> than him and could withstand any physical or energy attacks he threw
> at him, he'd start to get... Creative. Zap into some random
> dimension, shrink him to the size of a mosquito and swat him, zap
> _half_ of him into another dimension, fly them both into deep space
> and leave him there....

Well, Vegitto (Goku and Vegita fused via Potara earrings) got turned
into a coffee candy and didn't seem any worse for wear...

-"Dot"

[Dot Warner]

> Why? Because (presumably) Amazo can still think with computer-like
> speed. And as soon as he realized that Goku was physically stronger
> than him and could withstand any physical or energy attacks he threw
> at him, he'd start to get... Creative. Zap into some random
> dimension, shrink him to the size of a mosquito and swat him, zap
> _half_ of him into another dimension, fly them both into deep space
> and leave him there....

Well, Vegitto (Goku and Vegita fused via Potara earrings) got turned
into a coffee candy and didn't seem any worse for wear...

-"Dot"

[Disruptor]

"S.t.A.n.L.e.E" wrote:

> On Sun, 19 Sep 2004, Disruptor wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > "S.t.A.n.L.e.E" wrote:
> >
> > > Ah, the days when fight threads were supposed to go to raaf.
> > >
> > > So, in light of 9/18 Sat's Goku and Amazo characters,
> > > it's time for a good old fashioned slugfest. ^_^
> > >
> > > DBZ Goku (not manga, not DBGT) vs. JLU Amazo (not comics)
> > > Fightooooooooo!!!
> > >
> > > (To those who missed the 9/18 JL Unlimited "The Return" ep,
> > > I'm sure someone here would give the complete lowdown on
> > > Amazo's new abilities, including going to subatomic size
> > > and controlling dimensions, though I'm not sure what
> > > I'm wondering was delved upon - that is, how does Amazo
> > > fare against non-science/physics-based... like magic....)
> >
> > Really depends on the Amazo. A recent one in the comics had all the
> >
>
> I thought I was already quite specific? ^_^
> "JLU Amazo (not comics)"

shrug. Cant' comment. I don't have cable or sattelite, so I have to wait
for the DVD's

I really don't know how that Amazo stacks up.

>
> >
> > If another Amazo is built while Zatana is part of the JLA, he would
> > have Zatana's powers.
> >
>
> Well, I dunno. Amazo was made based on science,
> so any science-based stuff, it's plausible he can do.
> But magic is a whole different matter
> - it's not based on physical laws or equations, but faith.

So? There are a few scientists that incorporate magic into their works in
the SCU. Amazo' creator is one of them.

>
> So, I also wondered how he'd stack up against Morganna, Mordu,
> Ares and the gods, etc, even though the JL defeated them all.
> They've been in a lot of eps lately,
> except this one when they're needed the most. ^_^
>
> > >
> > > Anyways, didn't Goku get sick from a virus?
> > > Maybe Amazo could shrink himself to virus size to sicken Goku
> > > or even to subatomic size and manipulate his molecules?
> >
> > Well, he does have another option. I'm not to sure if Goku has a
> > defense against having his mind wiped. Both Green Lantern and Zatana
> > have that ability
> >
>
> Green Lantern? I thought that was J'onn's specialty?

Simple memory wipes are a part of the GLC's duties. If they have to land
on a primitve planet, any GL has to use the ring to remove the memory of
them being there.

J'onn's a telepath. The memory wipes were usually a Green Lantern's
responsibility

[Disruptor]

"S.t.A.n.L.e.E" wrote:

> On Sun, 19 Sep 2004, Disruptor wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > "S.t.A.n.L.e.E" wrote:
> >
> > > Ah, the days when fight threads were supposed to go to raaf.
> > >
> > > So, in light of 9/18 Sat's Goku and Amazo characters,
> > > it's time for a good old fashioned slugfest. ^_^
> > >
> > > DBZ Goku (not manga, not DBGT) vs. JLU Amazo (not comics)
> > > Fightooooooooo!!!
> > >
> > > (To those who missed the 9/18 JL Unlimited "The Return" ep,
> > > I'm sure someone here would give the complete lowdown on
> > > Amazo's new abilities, including going to subatomic size
> > > and controlling dimensions, though I'm not sure what
> > > I'm wondering was delved upon - that is, how does Amazo
> > > fare against non-science/physics-based... like magic....)
> >
> > Really depends on the Amazo. A recent one in the comics had all the
> >
>
> I thought I was already quite specific? ^_^
> "JLU Amazo (not comics)"

shrug. Cant' comment. I don't have cable or sattelite, so I have to wait
for the DVD's

I really don't know how that Amazo stacks up.

>
> >
> > If another Amazo is built while Zatana is part of the JLA, he would
> > have Zatana's powers.
> >
>
> Well, I dunno. Amazo was made based on science,
> so any science-based stuff, it's plausible he can do.
> But magic is a whole different matter
> - it's not based on physical laws or equations, but faith.

So? There are a few scientists that incorporate magic into their works in
the SCU. Amazo' creator is one of them.

>
> So, I also wondered how he'd stack up against Morganna, Mordu,
> Ares and the gods, etc, even though the JL defeated them all.
> They've been in a lot of eps lately,
> except this one when they're needed the most. ^_^
>
> > >
> > > Anyways, didn't Goku get sick from a virus?
> > > Maybe Amazo could shrink himself to virus size to sicken Goku
> > > or even to subatomic size and manipulate his molecules?
> >
> > Well, he does have another option. I'm not to sure if Goku has a
> > defense against having his mind wiped. Both Green Lantern and Zatana
> > have that ability
> >
>
> Green Lantern? I thought that was J'onn's specialty?

Simple memory wipes are a part of the GLC's duties. If they have to land
on a primitve planet, any GL has to use the ring to remove the memory of
them being there.

J'onn's a telepath. The memory wipes were usually a Green Lantern's
responsibility

[Hand-of-Omega]

Freezer <freezer88@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<Xns95695AEAC962Efreezer88hotmailcom@130.133.1.4>...
>
> Heh... And here I was thinking, "So _this_ is what would happen if the
> Justice League fought a Z-Senshi!"
>
My friends were saying the same thing!

> I'd say, that Goku poured it on and took out Amazo as fast as
> possible, he'd lose and lose badly.
>
> Why? Because (presumably) Amazo can still think with computer-like
> speed. And as soon as he realized that Goku was physically stronger
> than him and could withstand any physical or energy attacks he threw
> at him, he'd start to get... Creative. Zap into some random
> dimension, shrink him to the size of a mosquito and swat him, zap
> _half_ of him into another dimension, fly them both into deep space
> and leave him there....
>
> Yeah, I'd say Goku in a swift knockout or Amazo in a longer fight.
>
Agreed, basically. Also the reason I always gave the win to Galactus...

Dex

[Hand-of-Omega]

Freezer <freezer88@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<Xns95695AEAC962Efreezer88hotmailcom@130.133.1.4>...
>
> Heh... And here I was thinking, "So _this_ is what would happen if the
> Justice League fought a Z-Senshi!"
>
My friends were saying the same thing!

> I'd say, that Goku poured it on and took out Amazo as fast as
> possible, he'd lose and lose badly.
>
> Why? Because (presumably) Amazo can still think with computer-like
> speed. And as soon as he realized that Goku was physically stronger
> than him and could withstand any physical or energy attacks he threw
> at him, he'd start to get... Creative. Zap into some random
> dimension, shrink him to the size of a mosquito and swat him, zap
> _half_ of him into another dimension, fly them both into deep space
> and leave him there....
>
> Yeah, I'd say Goku in a swift knockout or Amazo in a longer fight.
>
Agreed, basically. Also the reason I always gave the win to Galactus...

Dex

[Hand-of-Omega]

dot_warner17@hotmail.com (Dot Warner) wrote in message news:<89096a6.0409200633.2c8c84ee@posting.google.com>...

>
> Well, Vegitto (Goku and Vegita fused via Potara earrings) got turned
> into a coffee candy and didn't seem any worse for wear...
>
Except that, as he says himself, Vegeto is NOT Goku or Vegeta, but is
a magical creation that can't really be referenced for what his
components are capable of.

Dex,
who believes that Goku would've been screwed if *he'd* been changed to
candy...

[Hand-of-Omega]

dot_warner17@hotmail.com (Dot Warner) wrote in message news:<89096a6.0409200633.2c8c84ee@posting.google.com>...

>
> Well, Vegitto (Goku and Vegita fused via Potara earrings) got turned
> into a coffee candy and didn't seem any worse for wear...
>
Except that, as he says himself, Vegeto is NOT Goku or Vegeta, but is
a magical creation that can't really be referenced for what his
components are capable of.

Dex,
who believes that Goku would've been screwed if *he'd* been changed to
candy...

[Hand-of-Omega]

<sigh> Just like Amaterasu in her cave, I'm pretty much out of the
game, but then somebody has to post a fight thread and rope me back
in...^_~

"S.t.A.n.L.e.E" <LostRune+NGs@UofR.SlamSpam.net> wrote in message news:<Pine.LNX.4.44.0409200113010.3022-100000@uofr.net>...
> On Sun, 19 Sep 2004, Sea Wasp wrote:
>
> > Disruptor wrote:
> >
> > > Well, he does have another option. I'm not to sure if Goku has a
> > > defense against having his mind wiped. Both Green Lantern and Zatana
> > > have that ability
> > >
> >
> > Some would say that this requires that Goku have a mind to wipe. ;)
> >
Goku has telepathic powers, tho he doesn't appear to have had training
in them. I'd give him a solid saving throw against mind wipe attempts,
tho someone like Professor X or the Martian Manhunter would have a
decent shot at it..

> Heheh. Actually, in a way, you could say JLU Amazo
> is even more naive than Goku, if even possible. ^_^
> He's like a newborn still learning the ways of the universe.
>
Yeah, imagine if he'd come to Goku, what his response to Amazo's
problem would be!^^

> >
> > I have no idea who Amazo is, but if he didn't use the RIGHT power
> > against Goku first, it is possible that what would happen is that Goku
> > would learn to imitate whatever power it is that allows Amazo to GET
> > all these other people's abilities. At which point the universe is
> > screwed.
> >
>
> Actually, _instant_ power-copy is one of Amazo's abilities,
> and then he improves on them, all without need for training.

Note also that, as an android, Goku probably wouldn't be able to sense
Amazo. Unless he was like Cell. Actually, I could see Cell in Amazo's
position if he'd survived. He'd also be asking the questions "Is this
all I am? Is there nothing more?" Hmm, superevolving AI removing all
in its way while returning to Earth to ask it's creator about its
purpose...why does that sound so familiar?^__^

> That's how he was able to best the Justice League
> - the more powerful his enemy, the even more powerful he becomes.
> He could now even "move" the Green Lantern Corp's home planet
> into another dimension and back, all in an instant.

We were also wondering if Amazo could beat the comic version of
Doomsday, who also possesses the power of evolving beyond all
challenges (even death...).

> He said no place, dimensional or subatomic, is out of his reach.
> And he doesn't ever run out of energy, lives forever, immortal.
>
Too bad he apparently can't teleport. Tho if he met Goku, that'd
change...
Funny that they were surprised that he was telepathic, since they
*gave* him that power at the end of his first appearance...^^

> Though as I mentioned before, I'm not sure about magic stuff
> since that's not science-based, as Amazo was built a nano-robot.

Amazo says in the episode that he's transcended his original
nano-nature.

> At the ep's end, Dr. Fate used magic to transport them both,
> If Amazo could, that would be a chance for him to copy that magic,
> but he didn't at all react about it (then again, it ended there).
> But who knows what he learned travelling all over the universe,
> so I dunno.... ^_^;;

Well, notice that he doesn't even bother copying ANYONE in this ep
(his shape would change somewhat everytime he did). He probably has
all he needs now. And if all he really needs is a JOB, then I'm sure
Galactus is hiring...^^

Incidentally, I *loved* how great Luthor came through in this episode!
Hell, at this point, I'd happily watch a Luthor animated series...^__^

Dex

[Hand-of-Omega]

<sigh> Just like Amaterasu in her cave, I'm pretty much out of the
game, but then somebody has to post a fight thread and rope me back
in...^_~

"S.t.A.n.L.e.E" <LostRune+NGs@UofR.SlamSpam.net> wrote in message news:<Pine.LNX.4.44.0409200113010.3022-100000@uofr.net>...
> On Sun, 19 Sep 2004, Sea Wasp wrote:
>
> > Disruptor wrote:
> >
> > > Well, he does have another option. I'm not to sure if Goku has a
> > > defense against having his mind wiped. Both Green Lantern and Zatana
> > > have that ability
> > >
> >
> > Some would say that this requires that Goku have a mind to wipe. ;)
> >
Goku has telepathic powers, tho he doesn't appear to have had training
in them. I'd give him a solid saving throw against mind wipe attempts,
tho someone like Professor X or the Martian Manhunter would have a
decent shot at it..

> Heheh. Actually, in a way, you could say JLU Amazo
> is even more naive than Goku, if even possible. ^_^
> He's like a newborn still learning the ways of the universe.
>
Yeah, imagine if he'd come to Goku, what his response to Amazo's
problem would be!^^

> >
> > I have no idea who Amazo is, but if he didn't use the RIGHT power
> > against Goku first, it is possible that what would happen is that Goku
> > would learn to imitate whatever power it is that allows Amazo to GET
> > all these other people's abilities. At which point the universe is
> > screwed.
> >
>
> Actually, _instant_ power-copy is one of Amazo's abilities,
> and then he improves on them, all without need for training.

Note also that, as an android, Goku probably wouldn't be able to sense
Amazo. Unless he was like Cell. Actually, I could see Cell in Amazo's
position if he'd survived. He'd also be asking the questions "Is this
all I am? Is there nothing more?" Hmm, superevolving AI removing all
in its way while returning to Earth to ask it's creator about its
purpose...why does that sound so familiar?^__^

> That's how he was able to best the Justice League
> - the more powerful his enemy, the even more powerful he becomes.
> He could now even "move" the Green Lantern Corp's home planet
> into another dimension and back, all in an instant.

We were also wondering if Amazo could beat the comic version of
Doomsday, who also possesses the power of evolving beyond all
challenges (even death...).

> He said no place, dimensional or subatomic, is out of his reach.
> And he doesn't ever run out of energy, lives forever, immortal.
>
Too bad he apparently can't teleport. Tho if he met Goku, that'd
change...
Funny that they were surprised that he was telepathic, since they
*gave* him that power at the end of his first appearance...^^

> Though as I mentioned before, I'm not sure about magic stuff
> since that's not science-based, as Amazo was built a nano-robot.

Amazo says in the episode that he's transcended his original
nano-nature.

> At the ep's end, Dr. Fate used magic to transport them both,
> If Amazo could, that would be a chance for him to copy that magic,
> but he didn't at all react about it (then again, it ended there).
> But who knows what he learned travelling all over the universe,
> so I dunno.... ^_^;;

Well, notice that he doesn't even bother copying ANYONE in this ep
(his shape would change somewhat everytime he did). He probably has
all he needs now. And if all he really needs is a JOB, then I'm sure
Galactus is hiring...^^

Incidentally, I *loved* how great Luthor came through in this episode!
Hell, at this point, I'd happily watch a Luthor animated series...^__^

Dex

[elsie]

"Hand-of-Omega" <smilinglord@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:27420f11.0409201706.135efb27@posting.google.c om...
> dot_warner17@hotmail.com (Dot Warner) wrote in message
news:<89096a6.0409200633.2c8c84ee@posting.google.com>...
>
> >
> > Well, Vegitto (Goku and Vegita fused via Potara earrings) got turned
> > into a coffee candy and didn't seem any worse for wear...
> >
> Except that, as he says himself, Vegeto is NOT Goku or Vegeta, but is
> a magical creation that can't really be referenced for what his
> components are capable of.
>
> Dex,
> who believes that Goku would've been screwed if *he'd* been changed to
> candy...

Yeah, he would have tried to eat himself.

laurie

[elsie]

"Hand-of-Omega" <smilinglord@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:27420f11.0409201706.135efb27@posting.google.c om...
> dot_warner17@hotmail.com (Dot Warner) wrote in message
news:<89096a6.0409200633.2c8c84ee@posting.google.com>...
>
> >
> > Well, Vegitto (Goku and Vegita fused via Potara earrings) got turned
> > into a coffee candy and didn't seem any worse for wear...
> >
> Except that, as he says himself, Vegeto is NOT Goku or Vegeta, but is
> a magical creation that can't really be referenced for what his
> components are capable of.
>
> Dex,
> who believes that Goku would've been screwed if *he'd* been changed to
> candy...

Yeah, he would have tried to eat himself.

laurie

[Sea Wasp]

Bill Blackthorn wrote:
> Sea Wasp wrote in news:414D9A08.10903@sgeobviousinc.com:
>
>
>>Disruptor wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Well, he does have another option. I'm not to sure if Goku has a
>>>defense against having his mind wiped. Both Green Lantern and Zatana
>>>have that ability
>>>
>>
>> Some would say that this requires that Goku have a mind to wipe. ;)
>>
>>
>>
>> I have no idea who Amazo is, but if he didn't use the RIGHT power
>>against Goku first, it is possible that what would happen is that Goku
>>would learn to imitate whatever power it is that allows Amazo to GET
>>all these other people's abilities. At which point the universe is
>>screwed.
>
>
> I don't think this argument has a solid basis in Dragonball
> canon. The only techniques Goku picked up that way were
> comparitively elementary martial arts/ki techniques

The Kame-Hame-Ha took Kame-senin fifty years to learn. Goku learned
it on sight.


and these
> feats have been duplicated by Tenshinhan and Kurilin.

Who, along with Yamucha, took considerable time to learn the
technique. Not years, but considerable time.


He *never* learned things
> like Ginyu's body exchange or Boo's tranformation ray. Or do you
> think he deliberately stayed in Ginyu's body?

He may not have thought about it, or it took a bit more time and
thought to learn.

He also escaped the exploding Namek in a ship that was built by
another race, using completely different controls than the ship he
arrived in, based on... what? Goku wouldn't know electronics if they
bit him. He appeared to have some knowledge of how to run Freezer's
ship, and the only way he could manage THAT was if somehow running ONE
ship -- just by rote instruction -- had given him the instinctual
knowledge of how to run ANY ship. Which is creepy-scary.



--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/seawasp/

[Sea Wasp]

Bill Blackthorn wrote:
> Sea Wasp wrote in news:414D9A08.10903@sgeobviousinc.com:
>
>
>>Disruptor wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Well, he does have another option. I'm not to sure if Goku has a
>>>defense against having his mind wiped. Both Green Lantern and Zatana
>>>have that ability
>>>
>>
>> Some would say that this requires that Goku have a mind to wipe. ;)
>>
>>
>>
>> I have no idea who Amazo is, but if he didn't use the RIGHT power
>>against Goku first, it is possible that what would happen is that Goku
>>would learn to imitate whatever power it is that allows Amazo to GET
>>all these other people's abilities. At which point the universe is
>>screwed.
>
>
> I don't think this argument has a solid basis in Dragonball
> canon. The only techniques Goku picked up that way were
> comparitively elementary martial arts/ki techniques

The Kame-Hame-Ha took Kame-senin fifty years to learn. Goku learned
it on sight.


and these
> feats have been duplicated by Tenshinhan and Kurilin.

Who, along with Yamucha, took considerable time to learn the
technique. Not years, but considerable time.


He *never* learned things
> like Ginyu's body exchange or Boo's tranformation ray. Or do you
> think he deliberately stayed in Ginyu's body?

He may not have thought about it, or it took a bit more time and
thought to learn.

He also escaped the exploding Namek in a ship that was built by
another race, using completely different controls than the ship he
arrived in, based on... what? Goku wouldn't know electronics if they
bit him. He appeared to have some knowledge of how to run Freezer's
ship, and the only way he could manage THAT was if somehow running ONE
ship -- just by rote instruction -- had given him the instinctual
knowledge of how to run ANY ship. Which is creepy-scary.



--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/seawasp/

[Freezer]

If I don't respond to this Sea Wasp post, the terrorists win.

> He may not have thought about it, or it took a bit more time and
> thought to learn.
>
> He also escaped the exploding Namek in a ship that was built by
> another race, using completely different controls than the ship he
> arrived in, based on... what?

Bad writing? :)

--
My name is:
____ _
/ ___| | |
| |__ _ __ ___ ___ ____ ___ _ __ | |
| __|| '__/ _ \/ _ \/_ // _ \| '__|| |
| | | | __/ __/ / /| __/| | |_|
|_| |_| \___|\___||___|\___||_| (_)
And my anti-drug is porn.

http://www.geocities.com/mysterysciencefreezer
(MSTings and other assorted brain droppings)

[Freezer]

If I don't respond to this Sea Wasp post, the terrorists win.

> He may not have thought about it, or it took a bit more time and
> thought to learn.
>
> He also escaped the exploding Namek in a ship that was built by
> another race, using completely different controls than the ship he
> arrived in, based on... what?

Bad writing? :)

--
My name is:
____ _
/ ___| | |
| |__ _ __ ___ ___ ____ ___ _ __ | |
| __|| '__/ _ \/ _ \/_ // _ \| '__|| |
| | | | __/ __/ / /| __/| | |_|
|_| |_| \___|\___||___|\___||_| (_)
And my anti-drug is porn.

http://www.geocities.com/mysterysciencefreezer
(MSTings and other assorted brain droppings)

[Bill Blackthorn]

Sea Wasp wrote in news:41501873.3090103@sgeobviousinc.com:

> Bill Blackthorn wrote:
>> Sea Wasp wrote in news:414D9A08.10903@sgeobviousinc.com:
>>
>>
>>>Disruptor wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Well, he does have another option. I'm not to sure if Goku has a
>>>>defense against having his mind wiped. Both Green Lantern and Zatana
>>>>have that ability
>>>>
>>>
>>> Some would say that this requires that Goku have a mind to wipe. ;)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I have no idea who Amazo is, but if he didn't use the RIGHT power
>>>against Goku first, it is possible that what would happen is that Goku
>>>would learn to imitate whatever power it is that allows Amazo to GET
>>>all these other people's abilities. At which point the universe is
>>>screwed.
>>
>>
>> I don't think this argument has a solid basis in Dragonball
>> canon. The only techniques Goku picked up that way were
>> comparitively elementary martial arts/ki techniques
>
> The Kame-Hame-Ha took Kame-senin fifty years to learn. Goku learned
> it on sight.

As did Tenshinhan. And not really comparable feats. Kame-senin
took 50 to develop his big-version Kame-Hame-Ha, not to copy it
barely good enough to work at all. It stands to reason that
developing a techniques is more difficult than copying it. Also
I don't think anyone has really duplicated kame-senins big version
KHH. There have been much more powerful KHHs, yes, but only because
the people using them were much more powerful allround. I don't
think they were anywhere near the same KKHpower/strength ratio.
And finally it's quite possible that Son Gahan sr. taught Goku
prepatory lessions with the goal to teach him the KHH eventually.

Yes, I know Kame-senin said it like the 50 years refered to the
same thing. Probably because saying it in a 100% correct way would
have made him look longwinded and predantic, he was really surpized
and copying the basics of a technique that took 50 years to perfect
is still damn impressive.

[feel free to disagree on this point because my argument doesn't
really depend on it, my main point is that Tenshinhan did exactly
the same thing as Goku.]

> and these
>> feats have been duplicated by Tenshinhan and Kurilin.
>
> Who, along with Yamucha, took considerable time to learn the
> technique. Not years, but considerable time.

Not Tenshinhan. He used it right in his next fight after seeing
it for the first time in his fight with Yamucha. I also had the impression
that Kurilin never even tried to duplicate the KHH until
he saw Yamucha do it, which would mean that he succeeded with his
second attempt. Admittedly after seeing it quite a few more times
more often than Tenshinhan and Goku.

> He *never* learned things
>> like Ginyu's body exchange or Boo's tranformation ray. Or do you
>> think he deliberately stayed in Ginyu's body?
>
> He may not have thought about it,

He isn't THAT stupid.

> or it took a bit more time and thought to learn.

And even if this is true (IMO more likely is that he was
completely inable to learn it) it means that Goku *can't*
instantly copy any ability.

> He also escaped the exploding Namek in a ship that was built by
> another race, using completely different controls than the ship he
> arrived in, based on... what? Goku wouldn't know electronics if they
> bit him. He appeared to have some knowledge of how to run Freezer's
> ship, and the only way he could manage THAT was if somehow running ONE
> ship -- just by rote instruction -- had given him the instinctual
> knowledge of how to run ANY ship. Which is creepy-scary.

Probably auto-pilot. Remember that those ships were also used to
transport infants to remote planets and that one of them brought
the half-dead Vegita back from Earth. It's also possible that Goku
just closed the lid, used his own flight ability to propel the
ship into orbit and only then started to worry about piloting it
by using trial and error. Or a bit of leftover knowlede from the
programming he was sent to Earth with.
He might have been bluffing or overconfident regarding Freezer's
ship and survival wasn't really a priority for him until the fight
with Freezer was over.
Since he somehow ended up on Yardat instead of Earth I wouldn't
bet any money on Goku's supposed instinctual technical genius.
In any case this is not an instance of Goku copying anything
because there is no one around to copy.

I take the fact that you snipped two of my points to mean that you
conceeded them.
--
Email rot13 qnex-naq-cevpxyl ng fbsgubzr qbg arg

[Bill Blackthorn]

Sea Wasp wrote in news:41501873.3090103@sgeobviousinc.com:

> Bill Blackthorn wrote:
>> Sea Wasp wrote in news:414D9A08.10903@sgeobviousinc.com:
>>
>>
>>>Disruptor wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Well, he does have another option. I'm not to sure if Goku has a
>>>>defense against having his mind wiped. Both Green Lantern and Zatana
>>>>have that ability
>>>>
>>>
>>> Some would say that this requires that Goku have a mind to wipe. ;)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I have no idea who Amazo is, but if he didn't use the RIGHT power
>>>against Goku first, it is possible that what would happen is that Goku
>>>would learn to imitate whatever power it is that allows Amazo to GET
>>>all these other people's abilities. At which point the universe is
>>>screwed.
>>
>>
>> I don't think this argument has a solid basis in Dragonball
>> canon. The only techniques Goku picked up that way were
>> comparitively elementary martial arts/ki techniques
>
> The Kame-Hame-Ha took Kame-senin fifty years to learn. Goku learned
> it on sight.

As did Tenshinhan. And not really comparable feats. Kame-senin
took 50 to develop his big-version Kame-Hame-Ha, not to copy it
barely good enough to work at all. It stands to reason that
developing a techniques is more difficult than copying it. Also
I don't think anyone has really duplicated kame-senins big version
KHH. There have been much more powerful KHHs, yes, but only because
the people using them were much more powerful allround. I don't
think they were anywhere near the same KKHpower/strength ratio.
And finally it's quite possible that Son Gahan sr. taught Goku
prepatory lessions with the goal to teach him the KHH eventually.

Yes, I know Kame-senin said it like the 50 years refered to the
same thing. Probably because saying it in a 100% correct way would
have made him look longwinded and predantic, he was really surpized
and copying the basics of a technique that took 50 years to perfect
is still damn impressive.

[feel free to disagree on this point because my argument doesn't
really depend on it, my main point is that Tenshinhan did exactly
the same thing as Goku.]

> and these
>> feats have been duplicated by Tenshinhan and Kurilin.
>
> Who, along with Yamucha, took considerable time to learn the
> technique. Not years, but considerable time.

Not Tenshinhan. He used it right in his next fight after seeing
it for the first time in his fight with Yamucha. I also had the impression
that Kurilin never even tried to duplicate the KHH until
he saw Yamucha do it, which would mean that he succeeded with his
second attempt. Admittedly after seeing it quite a few more times
more often than Tenshinhan and Goku.

> He *never* learned things
>> like Ginyu's body exchange or Boo's tranformation ray. Or do you
>> think he deliberately stayed in Ginyu's body?
>
> He may not have thought about it,

He isn't THAT stupid.

> or it took a bit more time and thought to learn.

And even if this is true (IMO more likely is that he was
completely inable to learn it) it means that Goku *can't*
instantly copy any ability.

> He also escaped the exploding Namek in a ship that was built by
> another race, using completely different controls than the ship he
> arrived in, based on... what? Goku wouldn't know electronics if they
> bit him. He appeared to have some knowledge of how to run Freezer's
> ship, and the only way he could manage THAT was if somehow running ONE
> ship -- just by rote instruction -- had given him the instinctual
> knowledge of how to run ANY ship. Which is creepy-scary.

Probably auto-pilot. Remember that those ships were also used to
transport infants to remote planets and that one of them brought
the half-dead Vegita back from Earth. It's also possible that Goku
just closed the lid, used his own flight ability to propel the
ship into orbit and only then started to worry about piloting it
by using trial and error. Or a bit of leftover knowlede from the
programming he was sent to Earth with.
He might have been bluffing or overconfident regarding Freezer's
ship and survival wasn't really a priority for him until the fight
with Freezer was over.
Since he somehow ended up on Yardat instead of Earth I wouldn't
bet any money on Goku's supposed instinctual technical genius.
In any case this is not an instance of Goku copying anything
because there is no one around to copy.

I take the fact that you snipped two of my points to mean that you
conceeded them.
--
Email rot13 qnex-naq-cevpxyl ng fbsgubzr qbg arg

[Gerardo Campos]

Bill Blackthorn <invalid@nospam.com> wrote on Tue 21 Sep 2004 08:44:24a:

> Sea Wasp wrote in news:41501873.3090103@sgeobviousinc.com:
>
>> Bill Blackthorn wrote:
>>> Sea Wasp wrote in news:414D9A08.10903@sgeobviousinc.com:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Disruptor wrote:
>>>>
>>
>> The Kame-Hame-Ha took Kame-senin fifty years to learn. Goku
>> learned
>> it on sight.
>
> As did Tenshinhan. And not really comparable feats. Kame-senin
> took 50 to develop his big-version Kame-Hame-Ha, not to copy it
> barely good enough to work at all. It stands to reason that
> developing a techniques is more difficult than copying it. Also
> I don't think anyone has really duplicated kame-senins big version
> KHH. There have been much more powerful KHHs, yes, but only because
> the people using them were much more powerful allround. I don't
> think they were anywhere near the same KKHpower/strength ratio.
> And finally it's quite possible that Son Gahan sr. taught Goku
> prepatory lessions with the goal to teach him the KHH eventually.
>
> Yes, I know Kame-senin said it like the 50 years refered to the
> same thing. Probably because saying it in a 100% correct way would
> have made him look longwinded and predantic, he was really surpized
> and copying the basics of a technique that took 50 years to perfect
> is still damn impressive.


Do not forget that Kame Senin blasted the moon with a Kame Hame Ha, and
he was standing on Earth surface.



--
Saludos
Gerardo Campos

[Gerardo Campos]

Bill Blackthorn <invalid@nospam.com> wrote on Tue 21 Sep 2004 08:44:24a:

> Sea Wasp wrote in news:41501873.3090103@sgeobviousinc.com:
>
>> Bill Blackthorn wrote:
>>> Sea Wasp wrote in news:414D9A08.10903@sgeobviousinc.com:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Disruptor wrote:
>>>>
>>
>> The Kame-Hame-Ha took Kame-senin fifty years to learn. Goku
>> learned
>> it on sight.
>
> As did Tenshinhan. And not really comparable feats. Kame-senin
> took 50 to develop his big-version Kame-Hame-Ha, not to copy it
> barely good enough to work at all. It stands to reason that
> developing a techniques is more difficult than copying it. Also
> I don't think anyone has really duplicated kame-senins big version
> KHH. There have been much more powerful KHHs, yes, but only because
> the people using them were much more powerful allround. I don't
> think they were anywhere near the same KKHpower/strength ratio.
> And finally it's quite possible that Son Gahan sr. taught Goku
> prepatory lessions with the goal to teach him the KHH eventually.
>
> Yes, I know Kame-senin said it like the 50 years refered to the
> same thing. Probably because saying it in a 100% correct way would
> have made him look longwinded and predantic, he was really surpized
> and copying the basics of a technique that took 50 years to perfect
> is still damn impressive.


Do not forget that Kame Senin blasted the moon with a Kame Hame Ha, and
he was standing on Earth surface.



--
Saludos
Gerardo Campos

[Bill Blackthorn]

Gerardo Campos wrote in news:Xns956B6119A16AEmexgpl@130.133.1.4:

>
> Do not forget that Kame Senin blasted the moon with a Kame Hame Ha, and
> he was standing on Earth surface.

Of course I don't. That's what I'm thinking of when I'm saying
that no one duplicated his big version KHH. No one else does
anything on that scale until Raditz.
--
Email rot13 qnex-naq-cevpxyl ng fbsgubzr qbg arg

[Bill Blackthorn]

Gerardo Campos wrote in news:Xns956B6119A16AEmexgpl@130.133.1.4:

>
> Do not forget that Kame Senin blasted the moon with a Kame Hame Ha, and
> he was standing on Earth surface.

Of course I don't. That's what I'm thinking of when I'm saying
that no one duplicated his big version KHH. No one else does
anything on that scale until Raditz.
--
Email rot13 qnex-naq-cevpxyl ng fbsgubzr qbg arg

[Jorge A Pratt]

"Bill Blackthorn" <invalid@nospam.com> escribió en el mensaje
news:cipb7n$uh0$07$1@news.t-online.com...
> Sea Wasp wrote in news:41501873.3090103@sgeobviousinc.com:

<snip>

> > He *never* learned things
> >> like Ginyu's body exchange or Boo's tranformation ray. Or do you
> >> think he deliberately stayed in Ginyu's body?
> >
> > He may not have thought about it,
>
> He isn't THAT stupid.
>
> > or it took a bit more time and thought to learn.
>
> And even if this is true (IMO more likely is that he was
> completely inable to learn it) it means that Goku *can't*
> instantly copy any ability.

Or, conversely, that he "won't." But still, Wasp, it's a retread of that
discussion we had months ago about Goku being able to copy another
creature's intrinsic abilities. If he encountered the X-Men, would Goku be
able to learn and reproduce their biological powers? He might replicate the
*effect* (say, he could learn how to shoot beams of ki out of his eyes,
harden his skin to steel-like durability or somesuch) but that would just be
a similar skill, not a natural ability. No amount of training or copying
will lend Goku the specific physiology necessary to reproduce these feats,
whether they're biological or artificial* in origin.

(*) I say artificial because that's what Amazo is. And Goku has as much of a
chance replicating them as he does of learning how to play back a DVD and
project the image on his stomach :P

OTOH, Amazo's very nature _is_ to instantly copy and reproduce biological
and artificial abilities (unlike Ifurita, who, IIRC, can only reproduce
artificial ones.) The super-science that produced him endowed his body and
mind with the capacity to analyze, understand and readapt physically and
mentally to new abilities. Goku, however, is just a damn good martial
artist, one that can see how other people pull off techniques which don't
require a specific anatomy to perform --thus, he can learn them.

Against Amazo, all Goku has is his current repertoire of techniques. Against
Goku, Amazo has his own powers *and* anything he sees Goku do. It's not the
other way around.


The Zephyr
(Recalling the "Goku learns to breathe underwater without gills" from last
time.)

[Jorge A Pratt]

"Bill Blackthorn" <invalid@nospam.com> escribió en el mensaje
news:cipb7n$uh0$07$1@news.t-online.com...
> Sea Wasp wrote in news:41501873.3090103@sgeobviousinc.com:

<snip>

> > He *never* learned things
> >> like Ginyu's body exchange or Boo's tranformation ray. Or do you
> >> think he deliberately stayed in Ginyu's body?
> >
> > He may not have thought about it,
>
> He isn't THAT stupid.
>
> > or it took a bit more time and thought to learn.
>
> And even if this is true (IMO more likely is that he was
> completely inable to learn it) it means that Goku *can't*
> instantly copy any ability.

Or, conversely, that he "won't." But still, Wasp, it's a retread of that
discussion we had months ago about Goku being able to copy another
creature's intrinsic abilities. If he encountered the X-Men, would Goku be
able to learn and reproduce their biological powers? He might replicate the
*effect* (say, he could learn how to shoot beams of ki out of his eyes,
harden his skin to steel-like durability or somesuch) but that would just be
a similar skill, not a natural ability. No amount of training or copying
will lend Goku the specific physiology necessary to reproduce these feats,
whether they're biological or artificial* in origin.

(*) I say artificial because that's what Amazo is. And Goku has as much of a
chance replicating them as he does of learning how to play back a DVD and
project the image on his stomach :P

OTOH, Amazo's very nature _is_ to instantly copy and reproduce biological
and artificial abilities (unlike Ifurita, who, IIRC, can only reproduce
artificial ones.) The super-science that produced him endowed his body and
mind with the capacity to analyze, understand and readapt physically and
mentally to new abilities. Goku, however, is just a damn good martial
artist, one that can see how other people pull off techniques which don't
require a specific anatomy to perform --thus, he can learn them.

Against Amazo, all Goku has is his current repertoire of techniques. Against
Goku, Amazo has his own powers *and* anything he sees Goku do. It's not the
other way around.


The Zephyr
(Recalling the "Goku learns to breathe underwater without gills" from last
time.)

[S.t.A.n.L.e.E]

On Mon, 20 Sep 2004, Disruptor wrote:

>
>
> "S.t.A.n.L.e.E" wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 19 Sep 2004, Disruptor wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > If another Amazo is built while Zatana is part of the JLA, he would
> > > have Zatana's powers.
> > >
> >
> > Well, I dunno. Amazo was made based on science,
> > so any science-based stuff, it's plausible he can do.
> > But magic is a whole different matter
> > - it's not based on physical laws or equations, but faith.
>
> So? There are a few scientists that incorporate magic into their works in
> the SCU. Amazo' creator is one of them.
>

I don't think he showed any of that in JLU, however.
But then, he didn't really get a lot of JL screen time
- he was just simply one of Luthor's scientists
(and Luthor hasn't displayed any magical gadgets neither,
so it can be inferred that they don't do magic at LexCorp).

Furthermore, right now, Amazo is even unsure of himself.
Last ep, he seeked out Luthor just to ask about purpose in life.
So, I doubt his mind has firm grasp of the concept of faith yet.
And he's still a machine, no matter how much his body has evolved.
Has there any machine-based lifeform in DCAU that does magic?
Maybe it's due to their lack of this intangible "life-force."

Laters. =)

Stan
--
_______ ________ _______ ____ ___ ___ ______ ______
| __|__ __| _ | \ | | | | _____| _____|
|__ | | | | _ | |\ | |___| ____|| ____|
|_______| |__| |__| |__|___| \ ___|_______|______|______|
__| | ( )
/ _ | |/ LostRune+sig [at] UofR [dot] net
| ( _| | http://www.uofr.net/~lostrune/
\ ______| _______ ____ ___
/ \ / \ | _ | \ | |
/ \/ \| _ | |\ |
/___/\/\___|__| |__|___| \ ___|

[S.t.A.n.L.e.E]

On Mon, 20 Sep 2004, Disruptor wrote:

>
>
> "S.t.A.n.L.e.E" wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 19 Sep 2004, Disruptor wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > If another Amazo is built while Zatana is part of the JLA, he would
> > > have Zatana's powers.
> > >
> >
> > Well, I dunno. Amazo was made based on science,
> > so any science-based stuff, it's plausible he can do.
> > But magic is a whole different matter
> > - it's not based on physical laws or equations, but faith.
>
> So? There are a few scientists that incorporate magic into their works in
> the SCU. Amazo' creator is one of them.
>

I don't think he showed any of that in JLU, however.
But then, he didn't really get a lot of JL screen time
- he was just simply one of Luthor's scientists
(and Luthor hasn't displayed any magical gadgets neither,
so it can be inferred that they don't do magic at LexCorp).

Furthermore, right now, Amazo is even unsure of himself.
Last ep, he seeked out Luthor just to ask about purpose in life.
So, I doubt his mind has firm grasp of the concept of faith yet.
And he's still a machine, no matter how much his body has evolved.
Has there any machine-based lifeform in DCAU that does magic?
Maybe it's due to their lack of this intangible "life-force."

Laters. =)

Stan
--
_______ ________ _______ ____ ___ ___ ______ ______
| __|__ __| _ | \ | | | | _____| _____|
|__ | | | | _ | |\ | |___| ____|| ____|
|_______| |__| |__| |__|___| \ ___|_______|______|______|
__| | ( )
/ _ | |/ LostRune+sig [at] UofR [dot] net
| ( _| | http://www.uofr.net/~lostrune/
\ ______| _______ ____ ___
/ \ / \ | _ | \ | |
/ \/ \| _ | |\ |
/___/\/\___|__| |__|___| \ ___|

[S.t.A.n.L.e.E]

On 20 Sep 2004, Hand-of-Omega wrote:

> <sigh> Just like Amaterasu in her cave, I'm pretty much out of the
> game, but then somebody has to post a fight thread and rope me back
> in...^_~

You're welcome.

>
> "S.t.A.n.L.e.E" <LostRune+NGs@UofR.SlamSpam.net> wrote in message news:<Pine.LNX.4.44.0409200113010.3022-100000@uofr.net>...
>
> > Heheh. Actually, in a way, you could say JLU Amazo
> > is even more naive than Goku, if even possible. ^_^
> > He's like a newborn still learning the ways of the universe.
> >
> Yeah, imagine if he'd come to Goku, what his response to Amazo's
> problem would be!^^
>

Goku would probably confuse Amazo even more, so Amazo will
keep "destroying" worlds (as in, moving out of the way to
another dimension) that are on his way looking for answers. ^_^

>
> > He said no place, dimensional or subatomic, is out of his reach.
> > And he doesn't ever run out of energy, lives forever, immortal.
> >
> Too bad he apparently can't teleport. Tho if he met Goku, that'd
> change...

Yeah, Goku would win if he can destroy Amazo with
"instant transmission" plus a killer blow immediately.
If not, Amazo would learn instant transmission after the 1st time,
so Goku wouldn't be able to use that trick anymore.

>
> > Though as I mentioned before, I'm not sure about magic stuff
> > since that's not science-based, as Amazo was built a nano-robot.
>
> Amazo says in the episode that he's transcended his original
> nano-nature.
>

No longer nano-based but still "machine"-based (how ever
that concept may be beyond human comprehension at this point).

>
> > At the ep's end, Dr. Fate used magic to transport them both,
> > If Amazo could, that would be a chance for him to copy that magic,
> > but he didn't at all react about it (then again, it ended there).
> > But who knows what he learned travelling all over the universe,
> > so I dunno.... ^_^;;
>
> Well, notice that he doesn't even bother copying ANYONE in this ep
> (his shape would change somewhat everytime he did). He probably has
> all he needs now.
>

Probably. Amazo doesn't need to learn magic to defeat magic.
What he has right now may be enough.
But what if there's a magic he can't handle?
That's why I made an issue of how magic could affect him.

>
> Incidentally, I *loved* how great Luthor came through in this episode!
> Hell, at this point, I'd happily watch a Luthor animated series...^__^
>

How did it go again? ^_^

Green Lantern: "What the devil is going on?"
Dr. Fate: "Lex Luthor... is saving the world."

Laters. =)

STan
--
_______ ________ _______ ____ ___ ___ ______ ______
| __|__ __| _ | \ | | | | _____| _____|
|__ | | | | _ | |\ | |___| ____|| ____|
|_______| |__| |__| |__|___| \ ___|_______|______|______|
__| | ( )
/ _ | |/ LostRune+sig [at] UofR [dot] net
| ( _| | http://www.uofr.net/~lostrune/
\ ______| _______ ____ ___
/ \ / \ | _ | \ | |
/ \/ \| _ | |\ |
/___/\/\___|__| |__|___| \ ___|

[S.t.A.n.L.e.E]

On 20 Sep 2004, Hand-of-Omega wrote:

> <sigh> Just like Amaterasu in her cave, I'm pretty much out of the
> game, but then somebody has to post a fight thread and rope me back
> in...^_~

You're welcome.

>
> "S.t.A.n.L.e.E" <LostRune+NGs@UofR.SlamSpam.net> wrote in message news:<Pine.LNX.4.44.0409200113010.3022-100000@uofr.net>...
>
> > Heheh. Actually, in a way, you could say JLU Amazo
> > is even more naive than Goku, if even possible. ^_^
> > He's like a newborn still learning the ways of the universe.
> >
> Yeah, imagine if he'd come to Goku, what his response to Amazo's
> problem would be!^^
>

Goku would probably confuse Amazo even more, so Amazo will
keep "destroying" worlds (as in, moving out of the way to
another dimension) that are on his way looking for answers. ^_^

>
> > He said no place, dimensional or subatomic, is out of his reach.
> > And he doesn't ever run out of energy, lives forever, immortal.
> >
> Too bad he apparently can't teleport. Tho if he met Goku, that'd
> change...

Yeah, Goku would win if he can destroy Amazo with
"instant transmission" plus a killer blow immediately.
If not, Amazo would learn instant transmission after the 1st time,
so Goku wouldn't be able to use that trick anymore.

>
> > Though as I mentioned before, I'm not sure about magic stuff
> > since that's not science-based, as Amazo was built a nano-robot.
>
> Amazo says in the episode that he's transcended his original
> nano-nature.
>

No longer nano-based but still "machine"-based (how ever
that concept may be beyond human comprehension at this point).

>
> > At the ep's end, Dr. Fate used magic to transport them both,
> > If Amazo could, that would be a chance for him to copy that magic,
> > but he didn't at all react about it (then again, it ended there).
> > But who knows what he learned travelling all over the universe,
> > so I dunno.... ^_^;;
>
> Well, notice that he doesn't even bother copying ANYONE in this ep
> (his shape would change somewhat everytime he did). He probably has
> all he needs now.
>

Probably. Amazo doesn't need to learn magic to defeat magic.
What he has right now may be enough.
But what if there's a magic he can't handle?
That's why I made an issue of how magic could affect him.

>
> Incidentally, I *loved* how great Luthor came through in this episode!
> Hell, at this point, I'd happily watch a Luthor animated series...^__^
>

How did it go again? ^_^

Green Lantern: "What the devil is going on?"
Dr. Fate: "Lex Luthor... is saving the world."

Laters. =)

STan
--
_______ ________ _______ ____ ___ ___ ______ ______
| __|__ __| _ | \ | | | | _____| _____|
|__ | | | | _ | |\ | |___| ____|| ____|
|_______| |__| |__| |__|___| \ ___|_______|______|______|
__| | ( )
/ _ | |/ LostRune+sig [at] UofR [dot] net
| ( _| | http://www.uofr.net/~lostrune/
\ ______| _______ ____ ___
/ \ / \ | _ | \ | |
/ \/ \| _ | |\ |
/___/\/\___|__| |__|___| \ ___|

[S.t.A.n.L.e.E]

On 21 Sep 2004, Freezer wrote:

> If I don't respond to this Sea Wasp post, the terrorists win.
>
> > He may not have thought about it, or it took a bit more time and
> > thought to learn.
> >
> > He also escaped the exploding Namek in a ship that was built by
> > another race, using completely different controls than the ship he
> > arrived in, based on... what?
>
> Bad writing? :)
>

He didn't he just "button-smash" then "kicked" (pounded)
the darn thing and ended up crash-landing in that planet?
Everybody knows "kicking" a malfunctioning machine
always gives a desired result no matter what you did. ^_^

Laters. =)

STan
--
_______ ________ _______ ____ ___ ___ ______ ______
| __|__ __| _ | \ | | | | _____| _____|
|__ | | | | _ | |\ | |___| ____|| ____|
|_______| |__| |__| |__|___| \ ___|_______|______|______|
__| | ( )
/ _ | |/ LostRune+sig [at] UofR [dot] net
| ( _| | http://www.uofr.net/~lostrune/
\ ______| _______ ____ ___
/ \ / \ | _ | \ | |
/ \/ \| _ | |\ |
/___/\/\___|__| |__|___| \ ___|

[S.t.A.n.L.e.E]

On 21 Sep 2004, Freezer wrote:

> If I don't respond to this Sea Wasp post, the terrorists win.
>
> > He may not have thought about it, or it took a bit more time and
> > thought to learn.
> >
> > He also escaped the exploding Namek in a ship that was built by
> > another race, using completely different controls than the ship he
> > arrived in, based on... what?
>
> Bad writing? :)
>

He didn't he just "button-smash" then "kicked" (pounded)
the darn thing and ended up crash-landing in that planet?
Everybody knows "kicking" a malfunctioning machine
always gives a desired result no matter what you did. ^_^

Laters. =)

STan
--
_______ ________ _______ ____ ___ ___ ______ ______
| __|__ __| _ | \ | | | | _____| _____|
|__ | | | | _ | |\ | |___| ____|| ____|
|_______| |__| |__| |__|___| \ ___|_______|______|______|
__| | ( )
/ _ | |/ LostRune+sig [at] UofR [dot] net
| ( _| | http://www.uofr.net/~lostrune/
\ ______| _______ ____ ___
/ \ / \ | _ | \ | |
/ \/ \| _ | |\ |
/___/\/\___|__| |__|___| \ ___|

[Disruptor]

"S.t.A.n.L.e.E" wrote:

> On Mon, 20 Sep 2004, Disruptor wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > "S.t.A.n.L.e.E" wrote:
> >
> > > On Sun, 19 Sep 2004, Disruptor wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > If another Amazo is built while Zatana is part of the JLA, he would
> > > > have Zatana's powers.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Well, I dunno. Amazo was made based on science,
> > > so any science-based stuff, it's plausible he can do.
> > > But magic is a whole different matter
> > > - it's not based on physical laws or equations, but faith.
> >
> > So? There are a few scientists that incorporate magic into their works in
> > the SCU. Amazo' creator is one of them.
> >
>
> I don't think he showed any of that in JLU, however.
> But then, he didn't really get a lot of JL screen time
> - he was just simply one of Luthor's scientists

Hmm.

>
> (and Luthor hasn't displayed any magical gadgets neither,
> so it can be inferred that they don't do magic at LexCorp).

Not really.

>
> Furthermore, right now, Amazo is even unsure of himself.
> Last ep, he seeked out Luthor just to ask about purpose in life.
> So, I doubt his mind has firm grasp of the concept of faith yet.
> And he's still a machine, no matter how much his body has evolved.
> Has there any machine-based lifeform in DCAU that does magic?

Yes. Amazo's 'big brother', so to speak: Red Tornado

Reddy is the Air Elemental of the DCU. Long story about that. He's equivalent
to Swamp Thing(The Earth Elemental) in mystic power.

>
> Maybe it's due to their lack of this intangible "life-force."

Well, maybe.

[Disruptor]

"S.t.A.n.L.e.E" wrote:

> On Mon, 20 Sep 2004, Disruptor wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > "S.t.A.n.L.e.E" wrote:
> >
> > > On Sun, 19 Sep 2004, Disruptor wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > If another Amazo is built while Zatana is part of the JLA, he would
> > > > have Zatana's powers.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Well, I dunno. Amazo was made based on science,
> > > so any science-based stuff, it's plausible he can do.
> > > But magic is a whole different matter
> > > - it's not based on physical laws or equations, but faith.
> >
> > So? There are a few scientists that incorporate magic into their works in
> > the SCU. Amazo' creator is one of them.
> >
>
> I don't think he showed any of that in JLU, however.
> But then, he didn't really get a lot of JL screen time
> - he was just simply one of Luthor's scientists

Hmm.

>
> (and Luthor hasn't displayed any magical gadgets neither,
> so it can be inferred that they don't do magic at LexCorp).

Not really.

>
> Furthermore, right now, Amazo is even unsure of himself.
> Last ep, he seeked out Luthor just to ask about purpose in life.
> So, I doubt his mind has firm grasp of the concept of faith yet.
> And he's still a machine, no matter how much his body has evolved.
> Has there any machine-based lifeform in DCAU that does magic?

Yes. Amazo's 'big brother', so to speak: Red Tornado

Reddy is the Air Elemental of the DCU. Long story about that. He's equivalent
to Swamp Thing(The Earth Elemental) in mystic power.

>
> Maybe it's due to their lack of this intangible "life-force."

Well, maybe.

[Sea Wasp]

Jorge A Pratt wrote:

> Against Amazo, all Goku has is his current repertoire of techniques. Against
> Goku, Amazo has his own powers *and* anything he sees Goku do. It's not the
> other way around.

So Amazo is basically the Beyonder?





--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/seawasp/

[Sea Wasp]

Jorge A Pratt wrote:

> Against Amazo, all Goku has is his current repertoire of techniques. Against
> Goku, Amazo has his own powers *and* anything he sees Goku do. It's not the
> other way around.

So Amazo is basically the Beyonder?





--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/seawasp/