[SPOILERS!] Evangelion Conclusion(s) Questions

[Notus00]

Hi,

I have some questions about the NEON GENESIS EVANGELION conclusions. The
questions include *huge* spoilers so consider yourself warned!

[obligatory spoiler space]
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..

I just watched all 26 episodes of the TV series, DEATH & REBIRTH, and END OF
EVANGELION in the past three days. I followed the story just fine up until the
point in END OF EVANGELION in which Shinji finally launches EVA-01 and sees the
remains of EVA-02 which has been torn apart by the white EVAs. After that,
there was a lot of stunning visuals, but I didn't really know what the hell was
going on.

I know that Rei merged with Lilith and somehow Lilith awoke. I have no idea
what was going on with EVA-01 and the other EVAs. They were making some kind
of magical pattern in the sky. It looks like Rei then dissolved the AT fields
-- what kept everyone's soul incorporated in a body apart from other souls --
and then there was a lot of discussion going on with Shinji mixed with live
footage of Japan. There seemed to be some discussion going on about him having
the power to choose what happened next although I am not clear on what his
options were and what he chose.

The last thing you see is Shinji and Asuka lying on a beach of what looks to be
a sea of LCL. Then the whacko -- I am now convinced Shinji is unhinged
although I used to feel sympathy for him -- starts strangling Asuka. He stops
when she touches his face and then the movie ends.

?!? Could someone please explain what in the world was going on and what
happened? As poetic and profound as all of that dialogue and visuals appeared
to be, I was unable to conceptualize what the plot of the last thirty minutes
or so actually was. It was disappointing that the story ended on such an
unclear note.

Thanks in Advance,
Chad

[Delos Theta]

"Notus00" <notus00@aol.comNOSPAM> wrote in message
news:20021226031536.18102.00000254@mb-mm.aol.com...
> Hi,
>
> I have some questions about the NEON GENESIS EVANGELION conclusions. The
> questions include *huge* spoilers so consider yourself warned!
>
> [obligatory spoiler space]
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
>
>SNIP<
> I'll give it a shot as I understand it. I read an article where someone
asked the creator of Evangelion what it meant, and he said something like,
EVA is a question, find your own answers. Consequently, I don't know if
there is a set answer and if people want to tell me I'm wrong, I won't take
it personally.
Frankly, I consider that storytelling is leading your audience from the
beginning, through the buildup to the conclusion. The fact that you, I, and
everyone else that I talked to about it ended up scratching their heads
means that the writers didn't bring their audience along in the story, which
I consider poor storytelling. OK enough of my stupid opinions, here's what I
divined from watching EVA and from articles that I read.
Episode 26 and the End of Evangelion movie are not different endings, but
different perspectives on the same event. Drawning on some mythology, Adam's
mythical first wife Lilith is the mother of humanity. Both the angels and
humanity have reached the end of their evolution. If the angels merge with
Adam they finish their evolution (?) and if humanity merges with Lilith, it
will evolve (evolve may not be correct here, but the merging would allow
each to go on). Humanity can't merge with Lilith while the angels are around
and if an angel merges with Adam, humanity would be destroyed. Hence the
EVA, NERV, etc.
Now, as I see the ending...NERV beats the angels which allows humanity to
merge with Lilith (everyone liquifying into LCL to become one "being").
However, the story is about Shinji who ,dealing with his own issues, has
become a young man who deals with life by running from conflict and doing
what he "is supposed to do". He doesn't stand up for himself, or have much
of a sense of self-worth. He goes along with what he is told to do and hopes
for approval and acceptance.
In the end of the story (with the ultimate act of conformity, becoming one
entity, taking place), Shinji finally stands up for himself and asserts that
he doesn't need to find "happiness" in being what others think he should be,
but that he could make his own, different, choices (including where Auska
is concerned).
No, I can't explain all the scenes in the End of EVA, nor much else that is
questionable in the series. This explaination is simply one that works for
me and maybe if you watch EVA with these thoughts, it'll work for you too.
Thanks for the question, I hope that others will give their perspectives. As
I stated, I don't know if this is what they had in mind and would love to
hear from people who have a different take on it.

[Deric]

"Delos Theta" wrote:
> "Notus00" wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I have some questions about the NEON GENESIS EVANGELION conclusions. The
> > questions include *huge* spoilers so consider yourself warned!
> >
> > [obligatory spoiler space]
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> >
> >SNIP<
[Schnip]
> No, I can't explain all the scenes in the End of EVA, nor much else that is
> questionable in the series. This explaination is simply one that works for
> me and maybe if you watch EVA with these thoughts, it'll work for you too.
> Thanks for the question, I hope that others will give their perspectives. As
> I stated, I don't know if this is what they had in mind and would love to
> hear from people who have a different take on it.

To my mind, Shinji was given a choice to set the path for a new
evolution. The scenes of current day Japan was a device to show what
the starting point would be.

Rei's dissolving of humanity's AT fields, I thought, was a precursor
of reincarnating all of humanity into a new form which would be chosen
by Shinji.

What actually happened was a reinterpretation of the biblical
Cain/Abel story. Shinji/Cain was tired of taking the 'abuse' of
Asuka/Abel. Originally, Cain was angered as his 'introverted farmer'
offering was overlooked and the offering made by his 'extroverted
hunter' brother was accepted.

Shinji's decision to reincarnate things much as they were (I'm
guessing) except for being able to hurt/abuse/kill his source of
anger, much like the Cain/Abel story, brought out the Creator's
comment, "Pathetic." Given that Shinji knows he could do anything he
wants and his only thoughts are to avenge himself on Asuka, it is
truly pathetic.

This is just my opinion...I could be wrong...

Deric

[Benjamin Goldberg]

Notus00 wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I have some questions about the NEON GENESIS EVANGELION conclusions.
> The questions include *huge* spoilers so consider yourself warned!
[snip]

I haven't seen the last eps of Eva myself, so this is hearsay, but...

A number of fans suggested that the budget for Eva ran out at the end,
and that this is why there are so little plot and so many still images
in EoE. Many, especially those who write fanfics, simply pretend that
"End of Evangelion" simply didn't happen, and don't consider it canon
for the purposes of writing their stories.

Or, in other words... if EoE confused you, or you didn't like it, just
ignore it, and just pretend that the series cut off before the end -- an
unfinished series sucks, but even so, it sucks less than trying to make
sense of EoE.

--
$..='(?:(?{local$^C=$^C|'.(1<<$_).'})|)'for+a..4;
$..='(?{print+substr"\n !,$^C,1 if $^C<26})(?!)';
$.=~s'!'haktrsreltanPJ,r coeueh"';BEGIN{${"\cH"}
|=(1<<21)}""=~$.;qw(Just another Perl hacker,\n);

[Josef 'Jupp' Schugt]

Hi!

I did remove the spoilers.

On 26 Dec 2002 08:15:36 GMT,
Notus00 <notus00@aol.comNOSPAM> wrote:

> I just watched all 26 episodes of the TV series, DEATH & REBIRTH,
> and END OF EVANGELION in the past three days.

[SNIP]

> After that, ... but I didn't really know what the hell was going
> on.

YAPOTLOCAA - Yet Another Proof Of The Law Of Cause And Action

It takes more than three days to work through all that material...
There is rumor that nobody (not even at Gainax) does understand the
full implications of Evangelion.

Josef 'Jupp' Schugt

[Delos Theta]

Interesting, I never thought of it from that perspective. Maybe I'll spend
the weekend re-watching them and see if I still think the same about it. Of
course we'll never really know........but at least we can have a little fun
wondering.

[Syria Stingray]

dericwilson@yahoo.com (Deric) wrote in message news:<eeb02af6.0212262239.1caa477d@posting.google.com>...
> "Delos Theta" wrote:
> > "Notus00" wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I have some questions about the NEON GENESIS EVANGELION conclusions. The
> > > questions include *huge* spoilers so consider yourself warned!
> > >
> > > [obligatory spoiler space]
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> > >
> > >SNIP<
> [Schnip]
> > No, I can't explain all the scenes in the End of EVA, nor much else that is
> > questionable in the series. This explaination is simply one that works for
> > me and maybe if you watch EVA with these thoughts, it'll work for you too.
> > Thanks for the question, I hope that others will give their perspectives. As
> > I stated, I don't know if this is what they had in mind and would love to
> > hear from people who have a different take on it.
>
> To my mind, Shinji was given a choice to set the path for a new
> evolution. The scenes of current day Japan was a device to show what
> the starting point would be.
>
> Rei's dissolving of humanity's AT fields, I thought, was a precursor
> of reincarnating all of humanity into a new form which would be chosen
> by Shinji.
>
> What actually happened was a reinterpretation of the biblical
> Cain/Abel story. Shinji/Cain was tired of taking the 'abuse' of
> Asuka/Abel. Originally, Cain was angered as his 'introverted farmer'
> offering was overlooked and the offering made by his 'extroverted
> hunter' brother was accepted.
>
> Shinji's decision to reincarnate things much as they were (I'm
> guessing) except for being able to hurt/abuse/kill his source of
> anger, much like the Cain/Abel story, brought out the Creator's
> comment, "Pathetic." Given that Shinji knows he could do anything he
> wants and his only thoughts are to avenge himself on Asuka, it is
> truly pathetic.
>
> This is just my opinion...I could be wrong...

I only would like to add that, IF it had been watakushi who had posted
this, say, opinion, the well-known harassers and abusers known as
"The Allmighty Saviours of the non-existent honour of the western
anime newsgroups" would certainly have replied with derogatory
blah-blah-blahs such as "I don't know what you were smoking, and I don't
want any".

signed: voomer@bioscape.co.jp






> Deric

[Rich Wilson]

syriastingray@yahoo.co.uk (Syria Stingray) wrote on 11 Jan 2003:

> I only would like to add that, IF it had been watakushi who had posted
> this, say, opinion, the well-known harassers and abusers known as
> "The Allmighty Saviours of the non-existent honour of the western
> anime newsgroups" would certainly have replied with derogatory
> blah-blah-blahs such as "I don't know what you were smoking, and I
> don't want any".

Now don't be so hard on yourself, Syria/Gillian. Not everyone is out to
get you. Actually, some of us find you quite entertaining. :-)

- Rich
----
"You are but a convenience, a random insignificance in the memory of my
creation, without any value apart from a miniscule part of your DNA to make
me exist."

-- Shoujo Kakumei Lisa Simpson http://www.moonie.ca/uglyduck/skls.htm

[Dot Warner]

notus00@aol.comNOSPAM (Notus00) wrote in message news:<20021226031536.18102.00000254@mb-mm.aol.com>...
> Hi,
>
> I have some questions about the NEON GENESIS EVANGELION conclusions. The
> questions include *huge* spoilers so consider yourself warned!
>
> [obligatory spoiler space]
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
>

Like other people have said, EVA is a series where you have to draw
your own conclusions.

One particularly interesting theory I have heard goes something like
this:

Shinji was MEANT to fail.
Being one who constantly ran away from responsibility, pain, etc, he
would not be able to deal with becoming the Savior of All Mankind.
So he just chose what he wanted for himself--an amalgmation of
Rei/Asuka/Misato that he can treat however he wants to--while the rest
of humanity lingers as a gigantic puddle of orange tang.

Hence why the last line of the movie is "I feel sick."
Shinji literally held the entire world in his hands, and he threw it
all away.

[Aeon Flux]

Rich Wilson <cuteswan@pokeyfreakinoaksfanfic.com> wrote in message news:<Xns9300A753DF727cuteswanpokeyfreakin@64.154.60.187>...
> syriastingray@yahoo.co.uk (Syria Stingray) wrote on 11 Jan 2003:
>
> > I only would like to add that, IF it had been watakushi who had posted
> > this, say, opinion, the well-known harassers and abusers known as
> > "The Allmighty Saviours of the non-existent honour of the western
> > anime newsgroups" would certainly have replied with derogatory
> > blah-blah-blahs such as "I don't know what you were smoking, and I
> > don't want any".
>
> Now don't be so hard on yourself, Syria/Gillian. Not everyone is out to
> get you. Actually, some of us find you quite entertaining. :-)

As I said...

are you attempting to make me believe that you yourself is
less bad than the rest of this community of hollow-heads?
don't waste your time, *gaki*
::

Frequently-Asked Question:

"Why the heck manga and anime are so much better than most
cartoons and comics?"

Rarely-Given Answer:

"Evidently it's because the authors of manga and anime appear not to regard
the Japanese kids as perfect imbeciles whose respective perfect imbecilities
must last for eighteen years mimimum. In spite of the american military base
in Okinawa, Nihon is not a fully-westernized Asian country yet, therefore its
most intelligent citizens do not have to ask of the white house a special
authorization to think on their own."

signed: Rashojin Mizuki

from "Samurai Shodown II".

[Aeon Flux]

dot_warner17@hotmail.com (Dot Warner) wrote in message news:<89096a6.0301251851.322260e4@posting.google.com>...
> notus00@aol.comNOSPAM (Notus00) wrote in message news:<20021226031536.18102.00000254@mb-mm.aol.com>...
> > Hi,
> >
> > I have some questions about the NEON GENESIS EVANGELION conclusions. The
> > questions include *huge* spoilers so consider yourself warned!





> Like other people have said, EVA is a series where you have to draw
> your own conclusions.
>
> One particularly interesting theory I have heard goes something like
> this:
>
> Shinji was MEANT to fail.

After a fashion.

> Being one who constantly ran away from responsibility, pain, etc,

Good shounen INDEED ^.^

> he
> would not be able to deal with becoming the Savior of All Mankind.

This is the job of the false Messiah of course.

> So he just chose what he wanted for himself--an amalgmation of
> Rei/Asuka/Misato that he can treat however he wants to--while the rest
> of humanity lingers as a gigantic puddle of orange tang.

Right.

> Hence *WHY* the last line of the movie is "I feel sick."

This time you're *wrong*, evidently.

> Shinji literally held the entire world in his hands, and he

> ***threw it all away***.

Entirely agreeing with the last book of the New Testament, I must emphasize.

signed: boku.

::

[Rich Wilson]

i2j2k2minus1@yahoo.co.uk (Aeon Flux) wrote on 30 Jan 2003:
>
> As I said...
>
> are you attempting to make me believe that you yourself is
> less bad than the rest of this community of hollow-heads?
> don't waste your time, *gaki*

Actually, my goal is quite the opposite. :) Perhaps you missed the link to
"your" latest fanfic: http://www.moonie.ca/uglyduck/skls.htm . By the way,
do you have a listing for all of your identities? Playing "Who's Marsia"
to find your amusing posts wastes time when I'm just looking for a good
laugh.

- Rich
----
"It stung like the stings of a dozen scorpions, or perhaps even just a very
industrious scorpion who liked to sting and had lots of venom to spare."

-- Shoujo Kakumei Lisa Simpson http://www.moonie.ca/uglyduck/skls.htm

[5parrowhawk]

Dot Warner wrote:
> So he just chose what he wanted for himself--an amalgmation of
> Rei/Asuka/Misato that he can treat however he wants to--while the rest
> of humanity lingers as a gigantic puddle of orange tang.

There appears to be some controversy over whether the woman in the last
scene was such an amalgamation or simply Asuka (whose hair didn't look
its normal colour due to the lighting).

A number of fans maintain that it was Asuka and that she survived Third
Impact either by sheer force of will, or because Shinji wanted her close
to him. This theory is borne out by (1) the strangulation scene and (2)
the fact that Shinji is basically MUCH more attached to her than to
Rei/Misato all through the movie.

Of course, the latter theory could make it arguably (though you'd have
to argue a lot) less of a tragedy, and we can't have that, can we? ;)

- 5parrow

[S.t.A.n.L.e.E]

On Fri, 31 Jan 2003, 5parrowhawk wrote:

>
>
> Dot Warner wrote:
> > So he just chose what he wanted for himself--an amalgmation of
> > Rei/Asuka/Misato that he can treat however he wants to--while the rest
> > of humanity lingers as a gigantic puddle of orange tang.
>
> There appears to be some controversy over whether the woman in the last
> scene was such an amalgamation or simply Asuka (whose hair didn't look
> its normal colour due to the lighting).
>
> A number of fans maintain that it was Asuka and that she survived Third
> Impact either by sheer force of will, or because Shinji wanted her close
> to him. This theory is borne out by (1) the strangulation scene and (2)
> the fact that Shinji is basically MUCH more attached to her than to
> Rei/Misato all through the movie.
>
> Of course, the latter theory could make it arguably (though you'd have
> to argue a lot) less of a tragedy, and we can't have that, can we? ;)
>

Notwithstanding the latter theory would be a tragedy with Asuka,
Shinji couldn't have been any more "attached" to Rei
in the movie, if you know what I mean. ;-p

Laters. =)

Stan
--
_______ ________ _______ ____ ___ ___ ______ ______
| __|__ __| _ | \ | | | | _____| _____|
|__ | | | | _ | |\ | |___| ____|| ____|
|_______| |__| |__| |__|___| \ ___|_______|______|______|
__| | ( )
/ _ | |/ Stanlee Dometita stanlee@cif.rochester.edu
| ( _| | U of Rochester cif.rochester.edu/~stanlee
\ ______| _______ ____ ___
/ \ / \ | _ | \ | |
/ \/ \| _ | |\ |
/___/\/\___|__| |__|___| \ ___|